Comments on: How To Use A Door Zone Bike Lane Part 2: Attack Of The Door Zone! http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/ A community for cyclists in Boston Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:50:34 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Con Trarian http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1790 Con Trarian Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:28:20 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1790 So let me get this straight -- Bike lanes get painted (mostly?) in the door zone. The remedy proposed, then, is to teach cyclists about what part of the bike lane to use. So we need paint, we need t-shirts, we need classes ... etc. I agree, we do need education. But why not just teach cyclists to keep four feet from parked cars whereever they ride, and more for large vehicles like trucks? Isn't that simpler? If the cyclist is four feet from the parked cars, and s/he's in the bike lane, fine. If s/he's not, fine too. Either way, the cyclist is safe. Also, nobody's discussed the problem of left-hooks and right-hooks at intersections. Cyclists are more likely to be collide with moving motor vechicles when either the cyclist or the motorist is changing or crossing lanes of traffic, but guiding straight-going cyclists to the right edge at a point where right turns can be made is a sure set-up for being hooked. Yet I note that most all the new bike lanes I've seen in Boston are striped solid to the intersection. I realize that this violates some folks ideologies. So be it. So let me get this straight –

Bike lanes get painted (mostly?) in the door zone. The remedy proposed, then, is to teach cyclists about what part of the bike lane to use. So we need paint, we need t-shirts, we need classes … etc.

I agree, we do need education. But why not just teach cyclists to keep four feet from parked cars whereever they ride, and more for large vehicles like trucks? Isn’t that simpler?

If the cyclist is four feet from the parked cars, and s/he’s in the bike lane, fine. If s/he’s not, fine too. Either way, the cyclist is safe.

Also, nobody’s discussed the problem of left-hooks and right-hooks at intersections. Cyclists are more likely to be collide with moving motor vechicles when either the cyclist or the motorist is changing or crossing lanes of traffic, but guiding straight-going cyclists to the right edge at a point where right turns can be made is a sure set-up for being hooked. Yet I note that most all the new bike lanes I’ve seen in Boston are striped solid to the intersection.

I realize that this violates some folks ideologies. So be it.

]]> By: Boston Biker http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1635 Boston Biker Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:16:29 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1635 paul is right, it is 26 not 56 inches, the post has been edited to reflect this. I still however stand by my claim that this bike lane is not all door zone. I was also unable to find any 2 door car to test, or any cars from the 80's. I will let you know if I find any 30 year old 2 door cars and convince the owners to let me take pictures of them. paul is right, it is 26 not 56 inches, the post has been edited to reflect this. I still however stand by my claim that this bike lane is not all door zone.

I was also unable to find any 2 door car to test, or any cars from the 80’s. I will let you know if I find any 30 year old 2 door cars and convince the owners to let me take pictures of them.

]]> By: Paul Schimek http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1634 Paul Schimek Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:03:42 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1634 More on the Hampshire Street study: http://truewheelers.org/comments/cambstudy/index.htm More on the Hampshire Street study:
http://truewheelers.org/comments/cambstudy/index.htm

]]> By: Paul Schimek http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1633 Paul Schimek Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:01:40 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1633 In response to Charlie: 1) I took the dimensions from the South End Press article. "It will create a separate 12-foot boundary spanning from the curb to the inner bike lane line on both sides, dedicating seven and a half feet for parking and four and a half feet for bike lanes." http://www.mysouthend.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc3=&id=94631 Anyway, the left bike lane stripe is 12 ft from the curb. 2) It is not true that "much of the bike lane is outside the door zone." If you enlarge the picture, you can see that the tape is measuring 24", not 56". The whole lane is only 54" (4 ft 6 inches). Maybe a correction is in order? Also, doors and cars have different lengths from the one measured, and you can legally park up to 1 ft from the curb. 3) The Hampshire St study found that marking a left bike lane stripe on a narrow road did encourage some bicyclists to ride further left -- but not far enough left to be completely out of the door zone. There was already such a lane line on Columbus Ave, ostensibly dividing two travel lanes. The bike-lane symbols doesn't change that, but does tell bicyclists to ride in the middle of the bike lane instead of the left edge or outside altogether, and tells motorists that it's okay to honk and yell at bicyclist in the *motor vehicle* lane. 4) Yes, removing the cobblestone median would have been better. (Maybe even a sharrow to the left of a parking buffer zone.) I suspect that removing it was off the table both due to cost (no repaving was included in this project) and due to the desire to preserve illegal median parking (usually on Sundays). In response to Charlie:
1) I took the dimensions from the South End Press article. “It will create a separate 12-foot boundary spanning from the curb to the inner bike lane line on both sides, dedicating seven and a half feet for parking and four and a half feet for bike lanes.” http://www.mysouthend.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc3=&id=94631
Anyway, the left bike lane stripe is 12 ft from the curb.
2) It is not true that “much of the bike lane is outside the door zone.” If you enlarge the picture, you can see that the tape is measuring 24″, not 56″. The whole lane is only 54″ (4 ft 6 inches). Maybe a correction is in order? Also, doors and cars have different lengths from the one measured, and you can legally park up to 1 ft from the curb.
3) The Hampshire St study found that marking a left bike lane stripe on a narrow road did encourage some bicyclists to ride further left — but not far enough left to be completely out of the door zone. There was already such a lane line on Columbus Ave, ostensibly dividing two travel lanes. The bike-lane symbols doesn’t change that, but does tell bicyclists to ride in the middle of the bike lane instead of the left edge or outside altogether, and tells motorists that it’s okay to honk and yell at bicyclist in the *motor vehicle* lane.
4) Yes, removing the cobblestone median would have been better. (Maybe even a sharrow to the left of a parking buffer zone.) I suspect that removing it was off the table both due to cost (no repaving was included in this project) and due to the desire to preserve illegal median parking (usually on Sundays).

]]> By: Charlie http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1621 Charlie Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:28:33 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1621 Great work on the measuring! The dimensions on Columbus Ave are actually the same as Hampshire St in Cambridge (7' parking, 5' bike lane, 10' travel lane), however there is of course a cobble median on Columbus Ave giving motorists some extra wiggle room when passing bicyclists. These are pretty much the minimum dimensions for striping bike lanes. The fact that much of the bike lane is outside the door zone for most vehicles is encouraging. Cambridge did a before and after study of the bike lanes on Hampshire St and discovered that the bike lanes actually enticed bicyclists to ride further from the car doors than when there was no bike lane. More people ride in the danger zone when there is a not a bike lane present. Of course the best solution is to remove parking or remove the cobble median so that the bike lane can be wider and further from the car doors, but given the current cross-section, what we have now is certainly much better than what we had before. Great work on the measuring!

The dimensions on Columbus Ave are actually the same as Hampshire St in Cambridge (7′ parking, 5′ bike lane, 10′ travel lane), however there is of course a cobble median on Columbus Ave giving motorists some extra wiggle room when passing bicyclists. These are pretty much the minimum dimensions for striping bike lanes. The fact that much of the bike lane is outside the door zone for most vehicles is encouraging.

Cambridge did a before and after study of the bike lanes on Hampshire St and discovered that the bike lanes actually enticed bicyclists to ride further from the car doors than when there was no bike lane. More people ride in the danger zone when there is a not a bike lane present. Of course the best solution is to remove parking or remove the cobble median so that the bike lane can be wider and further from the car doors, but given the current cross-section, what we have now is certainly much better than what we had before.

]]> By: cranky4life http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1609 cranky4life Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:12:16 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1609 Cool write up. I really like your sign idea. On the lighter side of things, here is a perfect bike lane: http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/09/perfect-bike-lane.html :) Cool write up. I really like your sign idea.
On the lighter side of things, here is a perfect bike lane: http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/09/perfect-bike-lane.html
:)

]]> By: J http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1596 J Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:38:41 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1596 Here the picture I was talking about http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_2988.jpg The car is parked right before the pole which indicates available parking Here the picture I was talking about

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_2988.jpg

The car is parked right before the pole which indicates available parking

]]> By: J http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1595 J Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:36:48 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1595 I was there 3 weeks ago taking pictures and I noticed a car parked on top of a sharrow. I was taking a picture of the "illegal" parking when I decided to walk around the car and see what the sign on the light post said. Turns out, he was parked perfectly legally. I dont know what they were thinking with the sharrowd....unless there's a plan to remove parking and make that lane an actual lane (not the best idea as it will encourage speeding) I was there 3 weeks ago taking pictures and I noticed a car parked on top of a sharrow. I was taking a picture of the “illegal” parking when I decided to walk around the car and see what the sign on the light post said. Turns out, he was parked perfectly legally. I dont know what they were thinking with the sharrowd….unless there’s a plan to remove parking and make that lane an actual lane (not the best idea as it will encourage speeding)

]]> By: Liam http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1587 Liam Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:47:15 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1587 After looking at these photos, I think it would be great if they just painted a red door zone right on the street. After looking at these photos, I think it would be great if they just painted a red door zone right on the street.

]]> By: A simple adjustment in biking infrastructure, part 1 « BikingInLA http://bostonbiker.org/2009/10/07/how-to-use-a-door-zone-bike-lane-part-2-attack-of-the-door-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-1565 A simple adjustment in biking infrastructure, part 1 « BikingInLA Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:40:35 +0000 http://bostonbiker.org/?p=1687#comment-1565 [...] (?!?). Portland police release their internal bicycle training video. Advice from Boston on avoiding the door zone. Delaware declares female bike commuters extinct. A ‘60s era video from GM gives a driver credit [...] [...] (?!?). Portland police release their internal bicycle training video. Advice from Boston on avoiding the door zone. Delaware declares female bike commuters extinct. A ‘60s era video from GM gives a driver credit [...]

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